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We’ve entered an age where less people receive their news and current events information in print but rather search for it online. And as the purveyors of news and information, our goal is to deliver this information in the most efficient, concise way, while still providing meaningful engagement to our audience.
You could say that social media has come full circle and brought us back to “person to person” business. We see customer service issues resolved in front of our eyes on Twitter and Facebook instead of behind the scenes via an 800 number. Tweets are now playing a huge role in real time search results. Part of realizing that is knowing how to strategically craft the perfect tweet. Some valuable tips that will bump you up in the search results are to use SEO tactics in your tweets and learning how to maximize your tweet real estate by pumping out your keywords in the beginning versus the end of the post. And always, always fill out your Google profile!
Amy Guth is a true renaissance woman who also happens to know how to win in social media. Her ideas and techniques have helped make the Chicago Tribune’s social media presence stand out among its peers, while leading the way for news to have an immediate and lasting impact on the way we, as consumers, receive it.
Rich: Amy Guth is the General Manager/Publisher and oversees operations of RedEye and Metromix at Tribune Publishing Company, is a show host on WGN radio, and is an adjunct faculty member of University of Chicago’s Graham school where she teaches social media.
She is the current president of the Association of Women Journalists Chicago, is author of the 2006 novel,Three Fallen Women, serves as mentor/editor at the Op-Ed Project and is on the Inland Press Association’s Digital Advisory Panel.
In 2013 Guth was named Chicago’s Funniest Media Personality by Laugh Factory Chicago. Her bio actually stretched for pages, this is how much amazing stuff she’s done in her life. She also could be the first guest here on the show that has her own Wikipedia page, on which I found out that in 2011 – I don’t know if she wants me to tell you this – she was named one of Chicago’s Most Beautiful People. So Amy, welcome to the show.
Amy: Thanks, glad to be here.
Rich: So how does one become one of the most beautiful people in Chicago? It’s not a small town.
Amy: It’s not a small town. It’s interesting, when I was contacted about that I thought it was joke, I thought I was being punk’d, and I ignored it and deleted it, I thought it was spam or junk. It wasn’t until 2 or 3 emails later and a phone call that I was like, “OK, who is this?” And then I realized they meant it. To this day I have no idea who nominated me, all I know it was female and no one I worked with.
Rich: Well congratulations. I’m sure that’s the best award you’ve ever gotten.
Amy: I will say it was pretty fun because none of us at the shoot were professional models so we didn’t know what the heck we were doing all standing around in very fancy, borrowed clothing and the photographer is just kind of like, “Oh, these people do something else, they have no idea what they’re doing.” There was a stylist and all that, but it was fun to play dress up of course.
Rich: Absolutely, I’m sure. So before I ask you questions, I also noticed when I was looking before that we are almost like Twitter twins. You have about 32,000 tweets out there, I have about 32,000 tweets out there. You’ve got about 12,000+ followers, I’ve got about 12,000+ followers. We both are listed in people’s twitter lists approximately 1,000 times. That doesn’t really lead anywhere, I just thought I’d point that out.
Amy: But we’re Twitter twins, let’s own that.
Rich: I am owning that right now.
Amy: When did you join Twitter?
Rich: I think it was 2007, somewhere around that time.
Amy: I was May 2007.
Rich: Nice.
Amy: Yup, good times.
Rich: So, college, comedy, SEO and social media. How exactly did you put together this mix of skills and how did you find yourself in the place you are now?
Amy: Oh boy, you know what, I just like to say “yes” if I think it’s interesting. As cliche as it is, we really just have one go around this little, blue marble. So I think it’s important that we go all in and say yes and do things. I think a lot of people hold themselves back – especially women – sometimes we say we’ll wait and not put ourselves out there until we’re sure we’re qualified to do something. And I think there’s a lot of power in starting and there’s a lot of power in saying yes and learning as you go sometimes.
I often tell people that when I was a kid my dad threw me in the deep end of the pool and he had me swim back to him. He said, “You’re not going to drown, don’t freak out, just swim back.” And that has been a metaphor for every single thing in my life, I’ve just kind of jumped in and learned.
For a lot of those projects, I really have Twitter to thank. In 2006 shortly before my novel came out, my book publicist lost her husband and she quit and moved out of the country. And here I am a first time author and I was really leaning on her and we had all these plans. And I was really thinking that all this social media stuff is coming at us whether we’re ready or not. We need to learn from our colleagues in the music industry and adapt because they got capsized, and the people that we saw that were able to shift and pivot and adapt s models change. We’re now going to make money by selling tickets to shows and merchandise and it’s not going to be so much about downloading music and buying the music, those people suddenly had a very different career. And then some people said, “No, I’m not going to do that and adapt.” Metallica comes to mind because they were such a front runner and they started suing everybody, but it didn’t help, it didn’t stop the evolution of the technology. We’ve got to learn from our colleagues in the music industry to let’s just say yes and learn everything we can.
I kept saying that to fellow fiction writers and fellow journalists. And when my book publicist had to suddenly leave my book publisher said, “Do you want to punt and come at this a few months later, or do you want to just go for it and recoup what you can?” I said if you believe in me and will back me in everything that I want to do, I’ll check it with you first and not do anything stupid or embarrass you. So I just decided to dive in and learn absolutely everything that I can about social media, and that was the best way for me to do that. In the early time of social media I just kind of jumped in and learned everything that I could, and that resulted in a really cool thing.
For example, I did a couple of legs of my book tour and at the time I had started an independent press literary festival in Chicago called Pilcro, and as part of that every year there was a charity aspect, and that particular year I had raised money for the New Orleans Public Library. At that point it wasn’t too long after hurricane Katrina and those libraries and archives they were rebuilding. So I had this giant check to present and they wanted to display it, and we were trying to figure out all these logistics with shipping a giant check. You would not believe how expensive and ridiculous it is to ship a giant check, and I jokingly said it would be easier for me to just drive it down there and back then it would be to ship it. And then I thought, ok, I’m just going to do that. I have family in Louisiana and Texas so I wrote a blog post and said I’m going to drive from Chicago to New Orleans through Dallas, Fort Worth and back to Chicago, where along the way should I stop and do a book reading.
All these people chimed in and I basically crowdsourced that leg of my book tour and I ended up with way more readings than I would have had I just approached all these book stores along the way. I ended up with a lot more readings and I ended up with the kind of people who had a stake in it working. People would put themselves out there and say, “Oh, my brother in law has a bookstore in Tulsa, let’s do this.” And then that person would make sure that it worked out and there was press there and it ended up being this cool. collaborative thing and it all just kind of snapped into focus for me that this is how this works.
Around the same time my grandfather – who’s very cool who I always reference when I’m teaching social media and talking about it – he’s still with us and still totally mentally there and very active and he says the secret to longevity is to take a nap everyday, grow your own food and always be learning something new, which is hard to argue with that really. During that time and he said to me, “What is a tweet?” So I showed him Sears’s social media presence and he saw a customer service issue being resolved and he got super excited and he said, “I cannot tell you how long I’ve been waiting to get back to this.” And I looked at him and wondered what he was talking about, this was all new stuff. And he explained this was a return to the person to person business model. When he had a problem with his auto mechanic and grocer and banker and butcher, and he knew that if he had a problem – even if he didn’t get his way – that a human being was going to listen to him and they were going to work something out. It’s no longer about me with an 800 number going up against a big box store.
That was such an epiphany for me and it’s been a guiding north star for me in social media ever since that it really is this person to person business model. So fast forward and I was recruited by the Tribune as a result of live tweeting and crowdsourcing that book tour. At the time what is now the Chicago Now – the local blog network – was being built and they were looking for someone to bring a digital refresh to the book section. So I was recruited to help with the building of the Chicago Now site and transition into the book section, so I was recruited as a result of that.
Fast forward a few years later into the book section and the Kindle came out, the iPad came out and I found myself writing about digital publishing in that beat and reporting on that and all the developments there during a really exciting time for it. And then I made this appeal to the editor and I kept bothering him – like that scene in Zero Dark Thirty where she kept coming by her boss’s office and using a dry erase marker to write how many days it had been since we knew where Osama Bin Laden was and we hadn’t done anything about it – I was that. So I sent him this pitch and I kept coming by, “Hey, did you have a chance to read it? Just checking in.” And I really kept on him and said we need to be ahead of all this, one person needs to be leading all of this, and he finally he said I was right. So it was a few years into my time at the Tribune that I was given that job to kind of steer social media, and surely thereafter we added SEO to that, too. And that same principle stayed very much my north star, that it’s person to person.
At one point in 2012 we went to a registration model so that some of the content you had to register to get and what happened was on social media people said, “Screw the Tribune, they’ve gone to a pay one, I’m never reading it again.” And I said, “Hey, let’s not go there, that’s inaccurate. We’re just asking for your email address to access some longer and different content.” And at that point I had built out an entire social media team, a customer service division that was just dealing with home delivery issues and digital access. And we spent the entire 2 days documenting and answering every single tweet and Facebook remark individually. And they looked at me like I was crazy but a few hours into it they got it because they realized it wasn’t this same little messaging that I was copying and pasting, I individually answered every single person and we logged them all and we turned that document over not only here’s what we heard but here’s what we sent back in every, single instance.
It was something to the tune of 2,200 tweets or Facebook comments that we had gotten about that that day and we responded to every single one of them. And I got that document and I gave it to our CEO and I said, “Just so you know, people think are you’re just tweeting out stories. This is what I do and this is why I did it this and way.” And I think that kind of snapped in focus and luckily I’ve always had the benefit of the leadership at the Tribune. Tony Hunter and Jerry Curran have always really been very supportive of social media and very forward thinking about digital marketing. Of course, the digital leadership team are always very on top of it and open to experimenting and very supportive in that way, so it wasn’t like I had to sell these guys on it. But when I showed him that document he really got it and he understood what the value is on a larger scale.
The social media and SEO job, eventually I was working with some of the east coast newsrooms that are in the Tribune family and we were building a lot of digital pages and working on the website a lot and really tweaking SEO and coordinating efforts in newsrooms and things like that and the opportunity came up in 2013 to step into the RedEye and Metromix role, and no one from Editorial or Technology had ever done that, it had always been somebody with a sales background. And in my typical fashion, I just went to the hiring manager and told him here’s the perspective I can bring. I bring editorial experience and news judgement, but I also bring technology and all this stuff, I’m very DIY and entrepreneur and I can bring all this stuff to you.
So there was a lot of cool stuff to do as soon as I got back here at running Metromix, and we’ve since launched a new website for both products and apps and all this fun stuff and it’s been really, really cool. People look at my resume and say I’ve done so much different, weird stuff, but to me I’m always just kind of building on my experiences and always adding more and more to it.
Rich: That’s a great story. And one of the things I liked is you’re watching your grandfather have that moment of epiphany where suddenly there had been a full circle and we’re back to person to person, and then you took that with you to the Tribune. So that kind of brings me to the next question which is, you learned that lesson and put it to work for you, you’re now teaching students about social media, what were the lessons? There must be a mix of things like use of the latest technology along with this return to person to person interaction, how do you create a course like that?
Amy: Well I had the gift before I taught at University of Chicago Graham School, when I started the SEO job, I said let’s do a sprint. Let’s go in 90 days like crazy people and I want to train as many people as I can. I want the goal of training 1,000 people and I vastly overshot that. I trained many, many more journalists and salespeople and marketing people and a variety of people in the tribune. One of the first Twitter chats that we held was with a delivery driver and it was wildly successful because people had a lot of interesting questions and it was really fun and cool and he had a great sense of humor about the whole thing.
So really there’s the Tribune Banter, which is getting journalists to teach things to our readers. So that could be our film critic holding an Oscar conversation, or our sports writer talking about how to do a Fantasy Football draft and things like that. So my thing that I taught was I taught some master classes about specific things, like I taught a Pinterest master class and it was all day and I was like here is how you really dig apart Pinterest and here is Twitter and Facebook. And then I did a big master class that was a huge, huge thing that covered a lot of different things. But the thing that I focus on the most is unfortunately a lot of people in social media when they’re teaching it to someone they get a little bit frustrated. I think because I’m a little bit older than some people that hold social media roles – because I’m in Generation X – I didn’t grow up with it, I clearly remember sitting in a newsroom and realizing this is coming at us and we need to figure this out, we need to be open and say yes. So I didn’t enter the workforce with social medial already under my belt and a lot of times journalism students will come to me and interview m and say, “What did you study in college so that you could have that job?” And I say, well, the internet didn’t exist then.
So being very respectful of where everybody is in the process is a high priority to me because I think when you get that resistance and that fear and pushback, it’s just about fear. It’s hard to say I’m going to make myself vulnerable and be a student of something. It’s hard for people to do that and I want to make that as respectful and comfortable as I can. I like to show people an early win. I’ve heard people say, “I went to this one class and this guy just thought I was too old and he didn’t have the patience for me”, and I never want anyone to feel like that. I think if my grandfather can have that epiphany, then social media is accessible to anyone and that’s the beauty of it. It connects us with people around the entire world that otherwise we may not be able to connect with. So that’s one pillar of it.
The other pillar of it, to me, is efficiency. We can pontificate about it all day long – and some people do – but at the end of the day you have to have some actionable tactics that make sense so you’re not just winging it. So I made it very simple for people and I carried all that over into teaching a university study that’s it’s really we’re all busy, and I think when people get this idea that to be an effective Twitter user you need to sit there and look at it all day long. And that’s when you start talking about tools like Buffer and Tweetdeck where you can schedule something that’s not super time sensitive down to the minute. You can decide something is evergreen and share it later in the day because you know you have a stretch of meetings and you won’t be able to look at Twitter for a little while. And then you can come back later and take a look and comment and weigh in.
So really I think the respectfulness and bringing people to the process on their own terms, but then also really being mindful of efficiency and those steps. So for example there is a breaking news social media policy at the Tribune now as a result of that very thing. So I created this with the managing editor and she and I wrote this process – and many others were involved – I can’t take all the credit. But it was like you need to get it on Twitter first once you’ve confirmed it, then take your tweet and put it in our CMS and that’s the beginning of your story, start there. So that it’s on Twitter first – keyword “first” – so that we know Google news is looking and we know now that tweets are going to be indexed much better than they have been, and kind of a throwback to how they were several years ago when we were seeing that happen. But now a whole new way and much more effectively and in real time. So that’s even more important that we’re thinking about the words we’re using to start our tweets even to maximize that keyword potential.
So it’s Twitter and then – not because it’s a network but because of the strength of it – because Google built it – that goes on the Tribune’s Google+ page, and then it goes on Facebook. Just simply knowing the way search engines are looking at things, if there;s breaking news and we’re all fighting it out there in Google news, let’s get through it. So it’s really about boom, boom, boom, get it out there. And then we can think of the second beat of it that we’re going to share and the conversation we’re going to start. So that’s an example of just making it efficient. So that’s the breaking news policy and that’s how it will always go. And that way just to make it as efficient as possible.
Rich: That’s interesting. So you’re saying that you’re applying tactics of SEO right into your tweets because of the new way that Google was behaving by frontloading your keywords in that tweet?
Amy: Uh huh.
Rich: So today, BB King happened to just pass. If you were breaking that news, you might lead with, “BB King Dies”, or whatever, right at the beginning of that tweet with the hope that that would drive a lot more visibility and engagement for the Tribune, in this case.
Amy: Absolutely. An example I point to often is there’s a news organization that when Mubarak was addressing people who were protesting in the streets of Cairo several years ago, the news organization that was sort of the slam dunk, they were there, they tweeted something like, “The leader now addresses the nation and it’s people in the streets.” They never said Mubarak, never said Cairo, they never said Egypt.
Rich: That just seems impossible. They must have gone out of their way to avoid those keywords.
Amy: I know! So I said, “Mubarak addresses Cairo”, and suddenly I was extremely popular on Twitter. I happen to be looking right then and shared their link – it was their video stream – but I just happened to see it, shared it and there is was. So I see people kind of shoot themselves in the foot a little bit and now we’re going to have to be as conscious about that as we were several years ago with this new development.
People will say, “Breaking: XYZ happened”, or “Video: Dolphin and kitten meet”, and that valuable real estate is the beginning of that tweet and people are throwing that as video. Don’t waste that space, make sure. So I have a joke with people in the newsroom that when I die make sure that tweet starts with my name, don’t put my name at the end of it.
Rich: Right, “2011’s Most Beautiful Person…” and you’re like, no, no, no.
Amy: No, you’ve already lost it. My other pet peeve of course is when journalists say that someone has “passed away”. I say promise me it will say, “Amy Guth Dead.” Promise me you won’t say I passed away, that drives me crazy.
Rich: Of course you’ll never know if they did it right. Of course, unless there’s an afterlife and that’s a whole other podcast. So you also mentioned Google+, which is the bane of a lot of social media marketers everywhere, and completely unknown by most of the companies that could actually benefit from it. Why should a small business or an entrepreneur care at all about Google+ – and if they do – how do you recommend they actually use it?
Amy: This is what I say, and I’m sure Google will hate me for it. There are many aspects to Google+, the social network part is the least of my worries because there’s just not a ton of people there. And that’s ok, and it might change one day, but for now it’s not and that’s ok. What I do care the most about and said to almost all of my classes – and they have looked at me like I just sneezed a lobster – but truly I say go into Google+ and go to your profile and fill that thing out within an inch of your life and write your bio and tagline all in third person and you are just hand delivering Google exactly what you want it to know about you and exactly the way you want it to know about you.
So for example, when Google Authorship was so big a couple of years ago our religion reporter – before she left to get on a plane to Rome to cover the papal conclave – I told her to sit down and do her Google profile, we want to win, we’re going against every English-speaking publication in the entire world when the smoke color changes out of that chimney and we have a new pope. So we sat down and did it in third person and said, “Currently covering the papal conclave in Rome”, and we did so much preplanning and we had pre-written tweets and pre-written Facebook posts, filled out SEO fields in our CMS and kind of had stories ready to go where we could just plug in those details, we were winning in Google News that day. As a team we all planned so much with every single journalist that was going to touch that story that day and all the stories that followed it. We planned and planned and we were there holding strong in Google News and at one point she went to go find Cardinal George and interviewed him for that local story and we were getting updates from writers and eventually switched the byline to “staff reporter”, and that story was out of Google News in about three and a half minutes. It was so powerful because there was her picture, we had her Google Authorship, there was her photo right there next to her story and it went away almost right away.
So while Google Authorship is not the thing it used to be and has gone by the wayside, the power of filling out your Google profile is still quite strong and it still matters and it’s still very powerful. So I always tell people just do it, update it only when something changes but keep it updated, do it in third person so your hand hand delivering Google. You string all the pieces together for Google in a way that’s much easier, it just helps you win. I think more and more we’re going to see where it’s all about the credibility of the person writing it and their presence and less about the domain they’re on. If someone who without a big presence and authority online writes something on a second or third tier size or power domain versus someone with a lot of power, that more powerful author is probably going to have a more successful day online with that story just because of their byline. So it’s really to support that and the content creator approach.
Rich: I think just that fact that they dropped the Authorship – which was a big badge that you would get in your search results – it seems to be moving towards a more nuanced approach. So to string all these elements together might mean that more organic look that Google was ultimately striving for.
Amy: For sure.
Rich: Now I have a question. You keep on mentioning that you should be writing this in the third person, why is that?
Amy: Well because Google doesn’t know who “I”, “me” or “my” is. So if you say, “I am an author”.
Rich: That’s kind of like saying, “The leader will speak to his people in the country.”
Amy: Right! Exactly. People always say it feels awkward but I always say you busted your butt to accomplish everything that you’ve accomplished in your life, own it. Put stakes in those wins in the ground and claim what is yours. It is already yours, claim is online, too, just like you would in a bio at a panel or whatever. Own it, claim it, take it. If it’s slightly awkward to write in third person, that’s ok., you’re claiming space and claiming power and credibility online that is yours to claim. So get over the awkwardness and just do it. Saying “my award” doesn’t get you anywhere, but “Jane Doe’s award” does.
Rich: So you seem to have won – so to speak – as people win the internet. You seem to have won on the papal story. And obviously that’s something that you guys measured, you were looking at Google News, so it kind of brings up the idea of when it comes to social media search that there are metrics involved and things that we should be paying attention to, key performance indicators that we should be tracking it as business owners or marketers. Have we moved passed the day of how many Facebook likes or how many Twitter followers we have, and are there more important metrics that small business owners and entrepreneurs should be paying attention to in this phase of social media’s history?
Amy: Yeah, it drives me crazy when people say it’s all about followers. Because I’d rather have 100 followers who really give a damn what I have to say than 10,000 followers who really don’t care or half of them are robots. To me it matters that you’ve connected person to person – as my grandfather would say – in a very meaningful way. Which is not to say that I deeply know the inner feelings and dreams of every, single person I follow on Twitter, but I certainly have made that effort. I do follow a lot of brands because I’m interested and I follow a ton of publications because I want to be on top of news in our world.
I always tell people, don’t assume people get notifications for when you follow them if you follow them and they don’t follow you back. So I usually tell people why I followed them I’ll say, “Hey X, good to meet you at the Y event”, and then follow them. Or I’ll say, “Hey @, I really enjoyed your article about net neutrality”, and then I’ll go follow them. So they see it, everybody wants a shout out or a pat on the back, everybody wants to be appreciated and I think that goes a long way and so I always encourage people to not just follow but follow meaningfully and connect meaningfully.
But as far as business owners and metrics, yeah I do think we’re passed that because you really want meaningful engagement and that can mean a lot of things, it just depends on your business goals. So when I have talked to small business owners about social media, the first thing I ask and every time I’ve been asked to build a social media plan it’s always let’s not start with social media, what are your goals and what do you want to accomplish. That’s going to be different for everybody, If you want to just sell a bunch of stuff and get people to your ecommerce store that’s one thing, but sometimes it’s a PR story, sometimes it’s a business goal, whatever that is, I always start with that because that’s going to inform them.
Then let’s look at bounce rate, let’s look at how many people are sharing your page, things like that. That will really tailor the thing and it’s more than just having 10,000 that are fans of your Facebook page. So what, what are they doing. Are they helping you accomplish the business goal by being there, maybe not. So I think that’s really the way I go about it.
Rich: That makes a lot of sense and just to make sure I understand it first we start with what our business goals are, and they’re going to be different for everybody. But once we do that, we can determine what other metrics we should be measuring and then we can have more meaningful metrics there. And it’s not just about how many people might have clicked the “like” button while they were scanning my page, but how many people are helping me accomplish my mission or passion or whatever reason I’m on this planet.
Amy: Exactly.
Rich: So one more question before we wrap up. Social media is everybody’s darling these days – it’s sexy and everything like that – but I know you have an SEO background, I’m just wondering how important in the mix of things do you think search engine optimization is? I know you mentioned Google+ and the reason you’re on there is because of Google. So what importance does SEO play in today’s digital marketing landscape?
Amy: I think a big one. You have to have a certain mindset to work in social media and SEO – as you know – because so many jobs you can get to the point where you feel you have mastered this. With these rules, you have to go in and say i’m going to have to perpetually be in student mode. So that’s why when people say things like, “Oh, so and so is a social media guru”, you know what I say? No. Because guru sounds like I’ve already mastered it. And by definition of what it is, you have to constantly be learning and evolving because those two things will constantly be evolving and so you have to be constantly open to tweaking. So everytime I’ve taught I’ve always said that in 6 months this might be a little bit different but this is what it is today and this is how you win.
Less and less it’s like you used to be in SEO and someone else could do social media and it was all fine. And more and more I don’t think you can do one without the other, I think you have to do both because they are so very dependant on each other. Particularly of interest was the recent announcement of how much differently tweets are going to be playing in real time in search results.
Rich: Right, exactly. These things are constantly changing and we have to be ready to adapt. I think it’s about having that understanding of the underlying pieces, but then being willing to realize that the rules may change at any moment and suddenly there’s instant replay or something else that they’ve added to the game.
Amy: Absolutely, and I think that opens up your creativity. Once you understand that these are the rules right now and understand this last algorithm update, this is what the deal is with Twitter and Facebook and everything, then that’s when you can get creative and and say ok, since this works this way then what if this? We have to kind of make things collide and then you can start to be creative and come up with interesting things and do interesting and cool work and move the story forward a lot.
Rich: And that is how you win.
Amy: For sure.
Rich: Amy this has been great, I’ve really enjoyed talking to you and learning from you. I know there’s going to be a lot more people who want to learn a lot more about you so where can we send them to learn more?
Amy: The only thing on my business card is a phone number. The best way to find me is on Twitter. I always say don’t pitch me on Twitter, but build a relationship with me on Twitter. I love to connect with people on Twitter, I love to hear from people, so that’s really the best place to find me. I’m @AmyGuth on Twitter.
Rich: And don’t expect a follow back people, you’ve got to be interesting and talk to her.
Amy: And you’ve got to say hello. You just have to say, hi.
Rich: I always say that to people. I don’t check my follows anymore, if you want my attention, just say something to me.
Amy: Yup, absolutely. That’s the way to do it.
Rich: Amy, I’m going to jump on twitter right now and say something to you. Thank you very much for the time, I appreciate all your expertise today.
Amy: Thank you, glad to be here.
Show Notes:
Follow Amy on Twitter and be sure to say, “Hi!”
To find out more about Amy and all that she is involved in, check out her website.
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