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In today’s competitive digital landscape, mastering Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) is essential for driving online sales and ensuring your website performs at its best. Recently, I spoke with Ayat Shukairy, a recognized expert in marketing optimization. Ayat shared her invaluable insights and the SHIP methodology—a comprehensive framework for understanding and enhancing user behavior to boost conversions.
Boost Your Website Conversions Summary
Key Takeaways
- Understanding the SHIP Methodology: Learn how to scrutinize, hypothesize, implement, and propagate strategies to optimize website conversions.
- The Importance of User Behavior Analysis: Discover tools like heat maps and session recordings to gain deep insights into visitor interactions.
- Best Practices for New Websites: Essential tips for structuring pages and ensuring continuity between ads and landing pages to reduce bounce rates.
- Leveraging Customer Interviews: Use jobs-to-be-done interviews to uncover emotional and social motivations behind customer decisions.
- Optimizing for Mobile and Desktop: Strategies for treating mobile and desktop experiences as unique to enhance overall user engagement.
Understanding the SHIP Methodology
Ayat introduced the SHIP methodology, which stands for Scrutinize, Hypothesize, Implement, and Propagate. This approach is designed to systematically optimize your website’s performance:
- Scrutinize: Delve deep into your analytics to understand user behavior. Use tools like heat maps and session recordings to identify how visitors interact with your site.
- Hypothesize: Develop hypotheses based on the data and insights gathered. Identify specific problem areas and create targeted solutions.
- Implement: Execute experiments to test your hypotheses. This stage involves making changes to your site and observing the impact on user behavior.
- Propagate: Analyze the results of your experiments, learn from them, and propagate the successful changes across your site.
The Importance of User Behavior Analysis
A key takeaway from Ayat’s discussion is the importance of analyzing user behavior. By using tools such as heat maps and session recordings, you can gain a deeper understanding of how visitors navigate your site, where they encounter obstacles, and what influences their decisions. This data-driven approach allows you to make informed changes that can significantly improve your conversion rates.
Best Practices for New Websites
For those just starting, Ayat emphasized the importance of implementing best practices from the get-go. Here are some tips:
- Clear Goals: Ensure each landing page has a clear primary goal. Avoid bombarding visitors with multiple objectives, which can lead to confusion and high bounce rates.
- Continuity: Maintain consistency between your ads and landing pages. The language, imagery, and overall message should align to provide a seamless experience for the user.
- Above the Fold: Place key actions and information above the fold, making it easy for visitors to find what they need without scrolling.
Leveraging Customer Interviews
Ayat also highlighted the value of conducting customer interviews to understand the emotional and social reasons behind purchasing decisions. Using the “jobs-to-be-done” methodology, you can uncover deeper insights into your customers’ motivations, allowing you to tailor your marketing strategies more effectively. Incorporating customer language directly into your site’s copy can resonate more with potential buyers, as it reflects their thoughts and feelings.
Optimizing for Mobile and Desktop
In today’s mobile-centric world, it’s crucial to treat mobile and desktop experiences as distinct. Ayat advises taking a mobile-first approach in design, ensuring that mobile users have an optimized experience. This might involve different design elements and functionalities that cater specifically to mobile users, as their behavior and interaction patterns can differ significantly from desktop users.
Utilizing Effective Tools for CRO
When it comes to tools, Ayat recommends a variety of options for different CRO needs:
- Heat Maps and Session Recordings: Tools like CrazyEgg, Hotjar, and Microsoft Clarity help visualize user behavior and identify problem areas.
- Customer Polling: Implementing exit-intent polls can provide insights into why visitors leave your site without converting.
- Comprehensive CRO Tools: Ayat’s own tool, FigPii, offers an all-in-one solution with heat maps, session recordings, polling, and A/B testing capabilities.
Conclusion
Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) is a powerful tool for enhancing your online sales and ensuring your website meets its full potential. By following Ayat Shukairy’s SHIP methodology and leveraging her expert tips, you can gain deeper insights into user behavior, make informed changes, and ultimately drive more conversions.
Boost Your Website Conversions Episode Transcript
Rich: My next guest is a recognized expert on experimentation and marketing optimization. Oh, I love that. She is an in-demand speaker who has presented at marketing conferences throughout the world. With over 16 years of entrepreneurial and marketing experience, she helps companies create websites that visitors fall in love with while increasing their online sales. Her clients include eBay, 3M, the Special Olympics, Dish Network, Discovery, and many more.
She is the co-author of Conversion Optimization, an Amazon.com bestselling book. In that book, she combines groundbreaking market research with powerful storytelling and case studies to demonstrate how to leverage these principles to create killer websites.
She provides one of the most comprehensive list of strategies and actionable insights for helping websites capture more of their visitors into lifetime customers. She provides insights grounded in comprehensive research, the best contemporary psychology and behavioral science, which any company can start implementing immediately.
Today, we’re going to be diving into improving conversions and sales at your website with Ayat Shukairy. Ayat, welcome to the show.
Ayat: Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.
Rich: All right, so let’s jump right into the fray. I understand that you have a framework, the SHIP methodology, S H I P, that you can help us understand user behavior and we can use that to increase conversion rates at our websites. Can you walk us through that process?
Ayat: Yep, absolutely. So first off, I’d like to say that conversion rate optimization is an important tool that every single company should have in their toolbox. Because essentially, if you’re not doing it, you’re not learning more about your customers. You’re not adapting to the changes within the economy. The changes within your customer base. There’s so many things that impact and influence, and we always need to be on top of it and know and adapt our site accordingly.
So we developed this methodology as a result of that. And this methodology, basically it’s easy to remember, SHIP. The word SHIP, S H I P, but it stands for the S is scrutinize, hypothesize, implement and propagate.
And the S is really important. That’s where we spend most of our time in the scrutinized phase. And that’s where we’re really delving in deep. Really trying to uncover and understand customer behavior based on analytics. So we’re diving into their analytics, understanding, where are they going throughout the site? What are those landing pages? How are they performing? And what can we do to really improve that?
And then of course, combining that with user research, interviewing customers. Conducting polls and surveys, so we can understand a little bit more, get some insight into what’s going on, what’s making them tick, what’s stopping them, what are some of the pain points that they’re dealing with, and really trying to address that on the site. Really understanding again, that those emotional and social aspects that motivate visitors, that are really going to take your website to the next level. And then of course, there’s heat maps, session recordings, there’s so many tools that we can be utilizing to understand a little bit more about the whole picture of what, how, and why our visitors are behaving the way that they’re behaving on the site.
And then of course once I understand that, I extract specific problem areas that I’ve identified and then create hypotheses based on that. Create experiments based on those hypotheses, implement them, and then learn more. Really my testing is a tool within CRO in order for me to understand a little bit more about the visitor. I’ve made a specific change. I’ve come up with a specific hypothesis and solution. What type of an impact did it have? Why did the visitor behave that way?
We always say a really good experiment is an experiment that starts with good questions, but an even better experiment is one that ends with even better questions. I have more questions as a result of this experiment, and the results of this experiment before I even started, even if the experiment didn’t succeed. Actually, it’s those experiments that don’t exceed succeed that helped me take a step back and say, what did I do wrong? Why did this experiment not impact the visitor the way that we suspected that it would?
Rich: It sounds like you’re brought in a lot of times when maybe sites aren’t as optimized as they could be. But do you have any advice for us? If we’re just getting started, if there’s not a lot of data there, is there anything that we can do to put ourselves in the best possible position?
Ayat: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think there are specific best practices that any type of company can take. So if I’m just building a site, I haven’t started yet, I do want to, as much as possible, collect some user data. I want to look at my analytics eventually. But if I don’t even have that to begin with, the structure that I have my site, I should ensure that first off whatever pages my visitor are landing on, there is a primary goal that’s very clear. I’m not really bombarding them with multiple goals that might confuse them. I also want to ensure that whatever pages that they’re landing on, I understand what ads are running so that there’s continuity between the language, the copy, the image that’s on the ad. And the actual end result of the landing page. If there is a lack of continuity there, you’re going to lose a lot of customers.
So these are just best practices that anybody can, when they’re launching their new site, when they’re launching their new business, they could think about some of these. I also want to make sure that whatever action I want the visitor to take, that’s above the fold. It’s clear. It’s easy for them to find. The more you make your visitors think, the more you make your visitors search and wonder, you’re going to cause friction. And that friction results in visitors exiting the site and giving up on your specific brand, and many times never coming back.
Rich: All right. So for those of us who do have some data to look at, you mentioned you do some deep dive and the analyze and you mentioned heat map tools. What are some of the different tools that you use when you’re trying to get a better understanding of user behavior on the website?
Ayat: So one of the key things that I always, and I think you hear this with a lot of marketing,
talk to your customers, right? You want to conduct customer interviews. We conduct a specific type of interview, it’s called ‘jobs to be done’. And this is all about really trying to understand the progress that a visitor is trying to make by purchasing your specific service or tool. So this helps us uncover really the emotional and social aspects.
Because a lot of times when I’m just asking questions, generic questions, or if I’m running some sort of a poll or a survey, I might get really top of mind answers from my customers. And that’s really not what I want. I don’t want top of mind. I want to dig deep. I really want to understand the reasons and the emotional and social reasons. And people are like, no, this is an impulse purchase. I don’t believe in impulse purchases. There’s always something there. And every single time somebody has told me it’s an impulse purchase, and I just do a little bit of digging into some of those social and emotional to get to that meat, I’m able to find out that actually, no, it wasn’t an impulse. There were some reasons and some aspects that led them to selecting this particular product or service.
So I think customer interviews, and if you follow a specific methodology to your customer interviews, can be very valuable. We even utilize from the interview, some of the words of the customers within the copy on the site. And we’re able to see some amazing impact on the rest of the customers. Because again, it’s from customer’s words. So a lot of people may be feeling again, the same way that these customers are feeling. So that’s one area that from a user research perspective, that is very important and very easy.
If you do have data and you have a customer base, they’re already people that are dedicated to your brand. So trying to get them onto an interview and maybe offering them a little bit of an incentive, maybe a gift card or something like that, shouldn’t be too difficult. But the insights that you can find are very valuable.
I love to utilize, of course heat map session, recording session recordings. They’re great to just give me a sense of how visitors are flowing. Especially if I recognize, for example, within analytics. If there is an area where visitors are struggling, then I can pull up some session recording specifically for that particular page, and I can uncover why are they struggling here. Why do I see a drop off within the funnel in this area on this particular page? I can just pull that from session recording. So it’s very helpful. And of course, heat maps usually goes along with that. So I find those are some really great ways.
One other thing that I would probably add to customer interviews is sometimes when we’ll conduct maybe only six or seven interviews, but then we’ll validate some of the answers that we get from the customers through a survey, and we see if the rest of the customer base have some of the same inclinations that these particular set of six customers had. So we can validate further and ensure that this is something that we’re seeing. It’s like a broader problem or a broader issue or broader pain point that customers are facing.
Rich: I love that. And I can see how, at our own company, we have our clients, our ideal clients that have bought from us. And we could definitely reach out to them. But obviously, we could also learn from people who didn’t buy from us.
Is there any methodology that you have, or maybe it’s not a method, maybe it’s approach, maybe it’s tool, to be able to survey people who chose not to move forward with you? Or is that just a black box we can’t open?
Ayat: No, so we’ll do some polling. So for example, if we find that there is a high exit rate on a specific page, we may run an exit intent poll. So as soon as the visitor hovers over the X to close a page, the pop up comes up and then we capture some information to understand a little bit more of what are you struggling with. Why don’t you want to move forward?
And this is especially useful down the funnel. Because if I have somebody towards the end of the funnel and they’re abandoning, I want to really capture and understand. You’ve made it this far. You’ve put in so much effort. What’s stopping you from moving forward from here?
Now of course on mobile, that’s not possible. And I know that a lot of traffic is more mobile focused. So what we do is we’ll look at the average time that people typically spend on that particular page when they exceed that time, or if that around that time that’s when that pop up may appear to capture a little bit more information and understand why are they not moving forward? Why are they hesitating? Why are they spending more time on that page?
So those are just some ways that you can capture a little bit more information. But of course, analytics sometimes can give you a little bit of a story. It can tell you where the drop offs are happening. You can start looking at the site and do some evaluations yourself. We do something, our team wide kind of heuristic evaluation of a site, which helps us uncover a lot of UX issues that might be stopping people from moving forward that maybe you wouldn’t have realized or you wouldn’t have recognized if you don’t look at your analytics to understand where visitors are dropping off and why they’re struggling with certain things. So those are just some tools that help to capture and understand a little bit more.
Rich: I’m wondering if you have any brand affinities when it comes to these tools. Like I know with heat maps there’s Crazy Egg and there’s Hotjar, and now there’s Clarity from Microsoft.
If you’re comfortable with it, what are some of your go-to tools in your tool set when you’re looking at these analytics?
Ayat: I have a bias because actually, we have our own conversion rate optimization tool, which is FigPii, F I G P I I. And that’s it has some heatmaps, session recording, polling, as well as A/B testing.
So a lot of those tools sometimes have only one aspect, but this tool actually has it all. So it’s really helpful. And then I can pull the heatmaps and session recording specifically for an experiment that I’m running, which is amazing. Because then I can figure out what’s happening within that particular experiment that I have actually launched.
But I’m pretty agnostic as well in the sense that I’ll use whatever tool my clients have. But if you were going to ask me, I would obviously tell you that FigPii is the best.
Rich: Awesome. And for those playing at home, I had no idea that you actually had your own tool. That was not me, just as a plan, trying to prompt you. But very cool to know.
So you had mentioned, you teased before that you need to go beyond just, it was an impulse buy. I’m sure with your experience you’ve probably seen some universal, emotional, and social reasons behind customer purchases. Can you share what some of the biggest reasons are why people buy or don’t buy? And then how might we leverage some of that information in our own marketing strategies?
Ayat: So the reason why, again, the emotional and social reasons why people don’t buy a lot of times. Again, we’re not providing visitors with enough information so they’re having to go investigate a little bit more or look at other brands that might offer something similar.
So what I’ve always found is sometimes putting more information upfront is better. But there’s also it’s a fine line. Because we always also say less is more, right? If I provide too much and I overwhelm visitors, then I might be actually stopping them from moving forward. So there’s a balance between making sure I’m providing them with really the essential information that’s going to prompt them and get them to actually move forward.
I don’t want my purchase ever to be focused on price. I want it to be about all the other reasons, all the other benefits. When you create a strategy around your products or services that is very focused on price, then you’re really missing out on relaying to them the benefits and really triggering that emotional and social reasons behind them wanting to actually make this particular purchase.
So that’s why one of the strategies we’ve deployed is really trying to focus, especially on the smaller brands, is focus more on the brand and what the brand is bringing to the table. So we have one client, for example, they sell these beautiful pajamas. And these pajamas they have a specific, like they’re creating the prints and they’re going through this whole process of creating these prints. You draw out the print, and then getting a special factory that creates these prints. It’s a whole beautiful process, but nothing in the site was relaying this information to the end user. For the end user, they’re getting to the page and they’re just like, “These are some expensive pajamas. I’m not going to actually move forward and purchase them.”
So what we did, and actually the interesting thing was that the majority of the visitors that were coming through their paid ads were performing a lot worse than any other visitor. So we said, listen, before the visitor actually gets to the product page with all the details and information about the product, let us sell them on the brand. Because these are very top of funnel customers that are coming. They’re seeing something very beautiful, and they’re convinced with that image, they’re clicking on it. But then as soon as they see the product page and they see the price, they’re just like, oh, this is not for me.
So we needed to highlight the brand as much as possible. Really communicate to them what this product was all about, and the process through making these beautiful prints and how they’re so unique to this brand. And really, this was more of a treat.
And again, going back to those customer interviews, whenever we interviewed any of their customers, they would always tell us that they felt like they were really treating themselves when they bought these pajamas and when they wore the pajamas, and made them feel like a million bucks. And that was what we wanted to communicate to the end user. That this is what these pajamas are going to make you feel. And we were able to see an amazing increase in conversion rates. I think like 30% increase in conversion rates on their paid campaigns. Again, it’s about really highlighting some of that information and knowing exactly what to highlight.
Now, again, we might go back and be like, okay, so somebody listening to this podcast might say, okay, then we need to throw all this information in and on the product page. And overall, we didn’t do that. We actually made sure we tested it. So I would definitely tell you, test it and make sure you’re testing one aspect at a time. Don’t throw a million things at the page and then be like, “Oh, what one impacted them positively? What impacted them negatively?” We have no idea how to tell, because we did a million changes. So you want to make sure that you’re a little bit more careful about the type of changes that you’re making, how you’re making them, and you’re thoughtful about how I’m going to measure this. Because otherwise, you’re not going to really understand what type of an impact it had.
Rich: When you’re suggesting these changes, working with your clients to make them, can you give us a sense of how long it takes to know and how much data you require to know that these made a scientifically recognizable difference, and we know this worked and we know this didn’t work and let’s go on to the next thing. What does that process look like for you?
Ayat: Yeah, absolutely. So whenever we work with any type of a client, we’re always looking at all of their pages and taking sample sizes. So for example, I want to run an experiment on the product page. I’m going to understand what is the sample size that I need to get to in order for me to get a statistically valid result? A statistically significant result? And so that’s a measurement that happens prior to me even conducting the experiment. Because if I see that the sample size is going to take me three months for me to be able to get a result, I’m probably going to do away with the testing on that particular page. It probably doesn’t make sense, right?
There’s not enough data for me to be able to come up with a really good result. Because within three months, so much can change. So your results are not going to be as valid. So you want to make sure that your experiments are running at no more than a month, really. That’s even very extreme. Ideally, two to three weeks I’m running an experiment and I’m able to actually find out what those results are. So my sample size should not exceed that period of time, but that’s what those sample size calculators tell us. They tell us how long this experiment is going to run and whether or not it makes sense for me to actually move forward and run something now.
Not all sites have a lot of conversions, and it doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be doing testing. But how we would approach a site that doesn’t have a lot of conversions is we would look at micro goals. So rather than me looking at a completed conversion, I’m going to look at visitors that may, for example, make it to the checkout, or make it to the form, or make it to this next page. And that way, at least I can measure, are they progressing in the right way that I want them to progress or are they not?
So that works for smaller sites, for sites that have some smaller sets of data, so I can be able to run experiments and find out more information and get statistically valid results in a shorter period of time.
Rich: All right, I want to make sure I understand it. So it sounds like if I don’t have a lot of data, if I don’t have a lot of visitors, statistically speaking, that I may need to start my experimentations closer to the top of the funnel. But if I’m data rich and I’m getting tons of visitors and tons of conversions, then maybe the most valid place to start my experimentation is towards the end, to improve those final conversion steps from checkout to actually purchase.
Ayat: Yes. So if I have a lot of visitors and a lot of conversions, then I can certainly measure the entirety of the purchase process. So let me take a step back. Whenever I’m running an experiment, I might have multiple goals. One of the goals might be the final conversion goal. So a purchase, for instance, but I might also be measuring other things. If I’m running an experiment on the homepage, I don’t only want my experiment to measure the final conversion from a homepage. I want to look at other things. I want to look at, did I get other – depending on what the experiment is – did I get more visitors to make it to the product pages? Did I get more visitors to click on this particular element? It might be an element that I’m testing on the actual home page.
So there are multiple goals that I want to be running. So for example I can’t measure a full conversion, but I might be able to measure within the homepage, I might be able to measure visitors making it to the product page or visit visitors making it to the PLP. And that way, I can get a valid result of whether or not this experiment was able to move visitors down.
But again, that full conversion might take awhile. So I need to be able to still measure something that’s valid for the experiment, and it might be multiple things, or click data. Maybe I want to measure they’re clicking on the search more, whatever it is. Those are going to give me a little bit better of a read of how this experiment actually performed. And I’m still actually going to be able to do some experimentation.
What I’m trying to say is that just because you have a smaller set of data shouldn’t mean that you can’t run experiments. But it just means that you have to be a little bit creative with the type of goals and the type of measuring that you’re doing.
Rich: That makes a lot of sense. What do you see as some of the common mistakes that businesses make when they’re trying to optimize your website for conversions on their own?
Ayat: I think one of the key common mistakes is that they’re trying to do too many or make too many changes at once. So rather than, testing a couple of variables, they’re testing maybe 10 different variables. So it makes it very difficult for me to determine what impact that change actually had. So that’s one mistake.
The other mistake I would say is also just setting up the goals and understanding what I want to measure and how I’m going to measure it. And then the third one is sometimes when you first run an experiment, you might immediately look at the results, and the immediate results look like there’s a massive increase in conversion rates or a massive impact. And so people get really excited, and they shut it off. But they didn’t run it long enough and they don’t run it through the sample size that you had initially calculated. And actually, the experiment wasn’t. going to result in that. It actually decreased conversion rates because you have to run it through that sample size to get a really statistical read. So people shut things off, they get too excited, and they don’t recognize that I really need to run it through the entire sample size.
Rich: You mentioned sample size a couple of times. I don’t know if this is a super nerdy question, or just something I should already know. But how do you determine when you’re looking at a page what the sample size needs to be to get that statistically significant result that we’re looking for?
Ayat: So the nice thing is you can Google ‘sample size’ or ‘calculators that actually just tell you’ and it asks you to input the number of visitors that make it to that page and the conversion rate on that page. And that way it can then calculate for you what type of a sample size that is and how long an experiment is going to run.
So the nice thing is, for majority and even actually whatever testing tool you’re using, majority of the tools that are already out there that are doing A/B testing will calculate it for you, which is super convenient. And you don’t even have to think about it and it tells you already, this is what the sample size, this is how long this experiment is going to run. So you don’t even have to worry about any of that.
Rich: Awesome. Fantastic. I want to check those out.
Artificial intelligence is obviously taking over all aspects of marketing, if not all aspects of the world. And I’m just curious to know about how or if you’re using it and seeing it in the tools, and what impact do you think that AI might have in terms of conversion rate optimization moving forward?
Ayat: Yeah I think, again, I believe that AI has a lot of advantages, but I still do think it’s in the infancy and it’s in the early stages. I think there’s still a long ways to go. I’d love to see it to the point where it can start actually suggesting experiments based on data points. But I don’t think that we’re there yet.
So I certainly think that there’s a moment in time that we need to surpass. But I think right now, the way that we’re leveraging the AI is that we’re taking that input, for example, when we run a poll, you run interviews, we’ll input that data and then we’ll see what are some of the outputs that AI is able to come up with based on that?
Or for example, especially when it comes to copy, there’s so much opportunity with AI to utilize ChatGPT to run specific whether it’s interviews that I’ve conducted, whether it’s research that I’ve conducted, and then see based on what AI would suggest that we use as headlines, as copy for specific areas of the site. We’ve found that very helpful.
So we’ve been able to leverage AI in those particular use cases. Are there other opportunities that we’re always exploring? Definitely. But like I said, I think that at this point in time, there’s a lot of data input that needs to happen initially in order for you to get something useful. But we actually have somebody within our company that created a CRO helper. But what I say that I would rely on that only, the outputs of the ChatGPT in that case, not really. I think you still need to take a look at it. You need the human eye, you need to make sure that it actually is valid. You need to make sure that it makes sense. Even the copy outputs, a lot of times we can take some ideas and inspiration, but we still have to make sure that it still works for our particular customers.
Rich: Absolutely. Although I love your idea of using AI to craft some of the headlines or copy on the page based on that. And we’ve started as an agency, interviewing our own clients as well as our client’s customers, to try and find trends and reasons why. But I hadn’t really taken it to that level. So that’s a brilliant idea. I’ll be stealing that one.
And you also mentioned mobile. And I’m just curious, as you approach CRO, do you have a different approach when it comes to the mobile experience versus the traditional desktop experience?
Ayat: Yeah, definitely. I think you have to treat them as two different devices, two different experiences, two different use cases, for sure. Absolutely. So when we’re looking at data, we’re definitely segmenting when we’re doing testing. We’re segmenting between mobile and desktop, because again, they’re two different experiences. And then when we’re creating designs, we always take a mobile first approach dependent on the client. But for the most cases are mobile first.
So our designs are always more focused on mobile, but then we’ll of course adapt it. And there might be some things that work on mobile that really just don’t work on desktop and vice versa. We keep that in mind because that’s so important to recognize that it’s a different kind of user, a different kind of experience, depending on what it is that you’re selling. We want to ensure that we’re addressing that mobile experience because it’s very unique and very different.
Yeah, absolutely a hundred percent, there’s two different things. You have to treat them differently. And I know responsive has always been a really big thing, but you have to be really weary of your responsive and what type of implication it can have on the end user just to ensure that you’re addressing all the areas that really impact them and making sure that you’re treating them as two different devices.
Rich: Awesome. This has been fantastic. Ayat, if people want to learn more about you, learn more about your company, and how they might be able to work with you, where can we send them online?
Ayat: So you can visit our site, invespcro.com. Or you can visit my profile on LinkedIn. I actually carry I’m on Twitter at @Ayat, and then also on Instagram at diffrant_marketing. I’m sure those will all be available to listeners on the show notes.
Rich: Absolutely. We’ll put them right in there. I thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
Ayat: Thank you for having me.
Show Notes:
Ayat Shukairy is the co-founder of Invesp, an e-commerce optimization company focusing on website usability and optimization. Be sure to check out her book on the topics, as well as connect with her on LinkedIn, X, and Instagram.
Rich Brooks is the President of flyte new media, a web design & digital marketing agency in Portland, Maine, and founder of the Agents of Change. He’s passionate about helping small businesses grow online and has put his 25+ years of experience into the book, The Lead Machine: The Small Business Guide to Digital Marketing.